Four Strings, Zero Dignity – Chatting with Ukulele Orchestra of Great Britain

Four Strings, Zero Dignity – Chatting with Ukulele Orchestra of Great Britain

[Intro Speaker] (0:25 - 1:01)

The Ukulele Orchestra of Great Britain, founded in 1985 by George Hinchliffe and Kitty Lux, is the world's original all-ukulele ensemble, think classical poise meets cheeky covers of pop, jazz and movie themes. Dressed in tuxes, they strum everything from Bolly to Beethoven on soprano, tenor, concert, and bass ukes, with sharp wit and zero pretension. Today, members like Guy Hargreaves, who the Trout interviews in this episode of, The Trout Show, keep the party going, proof that four strings can handle any tune.

[The Trout] (1:24 - 1:28)

What brought you to the tension of, oh, I think I want to play a four string instrument?

[Guy Hargreaves] (1:30 - 4:08)

I'd always, since being maybe 15, I think at 15 my dad bought me an acoustic guitar, which I've always had in the house, played more so when the children came. It was really useful for lullabies and making up songs. And so the guitar was always around, although I never really cracked it.

You know, like I enjoyed it, but it was I was three chords mainly. And then about 10, maybe 12 years ago, I'd been earning my living as an actor and I was doing a play up in a town in the north of England called Lancaster. And one of the cast members had a ukulele just in the dressing room.

And I thought, that's fantastic. Like wherever you go, that's never going to be a pain to tour with. Like it's going to be on a train or a bus.

It's in the overhead thing, the bin or the luggage rack. And on a plane, you probably get it on as hand luggage. And and so I got myself a very cheap ukulele.

And, yeah, very quickly just was having a lot more fun. And I was always playing it with the guitar. I was dipping in and out.

And with the ukulele, I became a little bit hooked on it. Yeah. And it was probably about the same time that I was seeing in the UK anyway, an upsurge in interest, partly because of the Ukulele Orchestra of Great Britain.

They'd had an appearance on a on a really influential television program called Jules Holland Hootenanny. Oh, I know who that is. Oh, yeah.

Every New Year's Eve, he does a big like Christmas, New Year celebration. Lots of top world class acts attend. New people as well.

And around about the same time as I got hold of my first ukulele, I saw this band on New Year's Eve playing a bit of Nirvana. I was like, wow. I mean, I was like, that is that's really something that you can take this little idiot guitar.

And I say that with the greatest.

[The Trout] (4:08 - 4:09)

I understand. I understand.

[Guy Hargreaves] (4:09 - 4:53)

Yeah. And make incredible and make an incredible sound with it. And together, you know, the band was doing something extraordinary.

So I never thought twice about they were way, way, way out of my league. But I think that planted a seed in my head. And then maybe a few years later, the Ukulele Orchestra of Great Britain was on the proms, which is a big, mainly classical music.

I've heard that season at the Royal Albert Hall, which is a six thousand seater in London. And they played a ukulele prom, which, you know, like incredible thing for seven or eight ukulele players to be on that stage.

[The Trout] (4:53 - 4:59)

Yeah, that's pretty famous. That's one of the places I've always said. Everybody goes, you want to play Madison?

No, I want to play Royal Albert Hall.

[Guy Hargreaves] (4:59 - 5:00)

Yeah.

[The Trout] (5:00 - 5:24)

My favorite musicians. I mean, Eric Clapton almost lives there. So, you know, he goes there a lot.

And I thought if I ever become famous, I want to be able to play Royal Albert Hall. I don't care about Madison Square Garden. I don't care about I want to go there.

So I was wondering now. Now I know because it's six thousand people. I try to figure out how many people fit into that thing.

Yeah, I think it's I mean, I think you got a lot of people sitting up above and all that stuff.

[Guy Hargreaves] (5:24 - 5:31)

So, yeah, well, as as with a lot of classical venues, you think you often have people sort of behind you as well.

[The Trout] (5:32 - 5:32)

Yeah.

[Guy Hargreaves] (5:32 - 6:18)

You know, like him. So it's a lot of people, six thousand people. So also for for me, I mean, I was a kind of performer, not not never made a living being a musician.

But I instantly started writing songs with a ukulele. It was really easy to be a songwriter. I mean, they were silly songs.

Often, often I was making comic songs and just sort of playing those in pubs and clubs and open mic sessions locally here in Lancashire. Yeah. So that that was the beginnings of it all.

[The Trout] (6:18 - 6:45)

I was just going to say, though, what you just said, one of the problems I don't when I get asked to go places, I don't even want to take my guitar with me because, you know, I never know what's going to happen to it. I know a lot of famous people, they pay for another seat so they could bring their guitars. And those are famous people that do that.

But I never thought about what you just said, because you can carry it everywhere and it's not very loud. So if you're sitting in a hotel room, somebody's in the next door, they can't really hear you.

[Guy Hargreaves] (6:45 - 7:09)

Yeah, not really. You don't have to you don't have to plug it in. And all of the ukuleles in the band are acoustic instruments, except for the bass ukulele, which gets plugged in directly.

But we are playing all acoustic instruments which are mic'd on the stage, you know, externally, not plugged in.

[The Trout] (7:10 - 7:13)

So, you know, does anybody plug in? Nobody plugs in.

[Guy Hargreaves] (7:13 - 7:14)

Yeah, the bass player.

[The Trout] (7:14 - 7:31)

I was wondering if he did, because you're not going to carry that low end if you don't plug it in, probably. Yeah. Well, so you started out your career, you're better known, I guess, as an actor.

I mean, you've done plays...

[Guy Hargreaves] (7:31 - 7:34)

Well, to say better known would be overstretching it. I mean, I was...

[The Trout] (7:35 - 7:40)

Let me say, your bio says you've done a lot of acting. OK, I'll put it that way.

[Guy Hargreaves] (7:40 - 8:54)

I mean, I was a jobbing actor, you know, and had been at that for 30 years, really, before the ukulele orchestra knocked on the door. And having, you know, not... I was making a living with my wife.

We have a small theatre company and we were making our own work, doing the odd TV bit, other bits of theatre. But it was, you know, it's a precarious living, but we were doing OK. We had a great training.

My wife and I both went to a drama school in London called Guildhall School of Music and Drama. So, funnily enough, even back then, at drama school, acting training, there was a lot of musicianship, brilliant musicianship. I mean, the Guildhall is a really world-class conservatoire for musicians, as well as a great place for actors to go and train.

And yeah, so I suppose I was... That's what I was doing. I was being an actor.

[The Trout] (8:54 - 9:22)

So, did you have a goal? You know, with musicians, I ask them the same question. Did you want to play in front of 10,000 people?

In acting, it's like, did you want to be a well... I mean, not well-known, but just a person that does... First off, you want to get paid.

But did you want to go, I want to do TV? Oh, I'd like to get into a series that runs 10 years, or I'd like to do some movies. And then you have your plays.

Or did you just like doing the live stuff?

[Guy Hargreaves] (9:23 - 10:51)

No, I think not having had lots of opportunity to do TV or telly, as we call it, or film. I mean, done bits and pieces, some of the soap operas, like dropping in for one episode, some commercials. Like, it always seems...

The grass always seems greener, because I was doing a lot of theatre work. I was sort of jobbing in the provinces, or small theatre tours going around the country. And you think, oh, to be on the TV.

But actually, I think as we got older, the thought of the live experience felt much more satisfying. Yeah, of course, we were all like, it'd be amazing to be in a movie, or that would be an amazing thing, because you'd have something really to get your teeth stuck into. If you're doing like four lines on Coronation Street, or one of the soaps, you're in and you're out.

And it's all, you know, it's very quick. So, of course, I think I would be lying if I said, yeah, I didn't want to be in a film, a big film. But as you get older, and as children and family come along, you know, I think your priorities change.

And you're happy to be working and not taking away quite so much from little children. They've grown up now.

[The Trout] (10:52 - 10:52)

Right, yeah.

[Guy Hargreaves] (10:52 - 10:58)

I'm having such a lot of fun with the ukulele orchestra. It's just been a ball, really.

[The Trout] (10:58 - 11:00)

How many members are there?

[Guy Hargreaves] (11:02 - 11:24)

Well, there's... I mean, how many is on tour, I guess? We have seven players.

On stage, yeah, at the moment. So it used to be eight, who would always... eight chairs.

And, you know, some people have been with the orchestra a very long time, because it's been going over 40 years now.

[The Trout] (11:24 - 11:25)

And that's amazing to me.

[Guy Hargreaves] (11:25 - 11:38)

Yeah, and then some... I'm kind of a newbie. But this American tour coming up in April, there'll be...

we have a newer member than me. So I'm like, not the newest member.

[The Trout] (11:38 - 13:15)

You know, when you've been playing as long as you have, it's like... I have a friend of mine who's a comedian. She knows what jokes are going to go over.

She knows what she wants. She's already tested. So when you play out, and you're performing and doing a performance, you know what songs people are going to get excited about, because you already know.

You already know what it is. And then, of course, I think it's... I saw...

and I didn't tell you this, but this is how I found you guys. Because, you know, I do rock, blues, musicians. I do people out of Nashville.

I try to keep my mind open for different things. I like Beethoven music, blah, blah, blah. It showed up on my YouTube one time.

And they were playing Shaft, which has had millions of views. And I'm sitting there going, what the... what?

And I see the crowd. Obviously, it was a festival or something like that. And then I went to find some other ones.

And I thought, well, this is very clever. I didn't know anything about it. And it was so funny when I got the email and I told my wife.

I said, hey, we're going to go see the ukulele. She goes, what? The ukulele orchestra?

I said, yeah. So I put out the... When people come to town, I get to go see them.

That's part of the deal. They all come and say, you know, yeah, you got free passes, see me in the back, whatever, you know, in the green room. So she goes, I don't know if I want to go see a ukulele orchestra.

So I bring out the Shaft. A sentence I've heard many times. So I brought out the Shaft thing.

She goes, oh, that's fun.

[Guy Hargreaves] (13:16 - 13:16)

Yeah, yeah.

[The Trout] (13:16 - 14:21)

You know, I think she kind of envisioned like a Hawaiian slack key or whatever. You know, we're going to do something weird and stuff like that. We are really not that.

No, you're not. And I think the thing about it, the one thing I know is you can't stay together, whether you change members, you have the same name for 40 years unless you do something right. I mean, it just, you have to.

And I also know you have to change with the times. So you can bring out the standards, just like a musician. Okay, you guys want to hear this song I've been doing for 40 years, but then we got to bring in something.

Here's something by Taylor Swift. And I'm like, oh my God, it's Taylor Swift song. You know, you have to.

Yeah. Because you have to keep it going. And I know you've had some members not with you anymore.

They've departed from this planet, which is, you know, that happens when you do something that long. How do you, so I looked at your schedule just before I came on, just to see where you're going. So when you travel.

Yeah. I've been to Bath. It's been a long time ago that I was there.

But so do you guys get on one tour bus or two tour? How do you get, because obviously.

[Guy Hargreaves] (14:22 - 14:31)

It's very different in the UK. It's very different because I know it's kind of close. Where I mean, kind of in American terms, it's kind of close.

[The Trout] (14:31 - 14:32)

Yes.

[Guy Hargreaves] (14:32 - 15:22)

But we all live in on this Island. And so for the UK, we all make our way to the city, wherever it is, whether London or Bath or Birmingham or Manchester, we arrive maybe in the middle of the afternoon. We've got some time to look at anything we need to look at and tweak anything.

Then we have a sound check. Then we perform and we usually stay in the city and then maybe go on to another city the next day. And we're all kind of getting there under our own steam.

But in America, of course, we, we're very much like a band. Like a traveling band, like in a caravan of just moving.

[The Trout] (15:22 - 15:31)

You're just like any other rock band or country band that's out there because you're traveling. The distance is so much greater. So much greater.

[Guy Hargreaves] (15:31 - 15:31)

Yeah.

[The Trout] (15:32 - 15:32)

Yeah.

[Guy Hargreaves] (15:32 - 15:49)

So it feels, but we, I mean, I think the American tour has happened. It's like going into maybe, it's been sort of 15, maybe more than 15 years that there's been a big American tour this time of year, spring kind of April time. Right.

[The Trout] (15:49 - 15:49)

Yeah.

[Guy Hargreaves] (15:50 - 16:17)

And it's usually, I mean, I think it's, it's sort of got a little bit bigger and bigger every year. Last year, I think it was 22, 22 dates in total, maybe a couple, maybe 20 in the United States. And then we headed up to Canada.

So it's quite intensive really, you know, we've just come back from Germany and Switzerland and Liechtenstein.

[The Trout] (16:17 - 16:20)

You're going to Sweden, aren't you going to Sweden? You're going to Sweden.

[Guy Hargreaves] (16:20 - 16:23)

We go to Sweden in about, yeah, two weeks or so.

[The Trout] (16:24 - 17:33)

Yeah. You're looking at a situation. The one thing I, this is what's happening in America as far as the bands that are touring.

It's, it's so expensive, excuse me, for a band to tour. And so what they're doing, and I think some of them are doing it on purpose. And I noticed that you guys are playing in places that a lot of people may not play, which gives you an opportunity.

Like you're playing in Manhattan, Kansas. That's where Kansas state university is. I know where it is.

I just live close to it. Not everybody's going to go to Manhattan and play. I mean, it's just not something that you're going to do.

But the other thing I've seen, of course, these universities usually have pretty good size auditoriums in them is in America. A lot of bands are doing smaller venues in smaller cities. They don't have to worry about selling out a 10,000 person arena or 12,000.

They don't have to worry about all the work goes into putting all the equipment together. You go in and do a thousand, 2000 people. It's still a good crowd and you're playing in the town.

It probably never gets to see that much entertainment, which means you're going to show up and you're going to sell out most of the time.

[Guy Hargreaves] (17:33 - 17:33)

Yeah.

[The Trout] (17:33 - 18:02)

And what I look at from you guys is the fact that you're not, you don't sit around and go, so what's your newest album? How many Spotify and how many times have they downloaded you on Spotify? You don't do any of that of any consequence.

You just do perform live to continue doing your own thing. And I bet putting this stuff on YouTube has generated a brand new group of people over the years, because just like me, that shaft thing is what? 20 years.

I don't know.

[Guy Hargreaves] (18:03 - 18:05)

It's probably is 20 years old. Yeah.

[The Trout] (18:05 - 18:07)

But it's new. It's fresh to me.

[Guy Hargreaves] (18:08 - 19:07)

Yeah. I do think the, the ukulele orchestra, I mean, it was founded four years ago by George Hinchcliffe and Kitty Lox. And it was a kind of, in a way, it was a sort of art school joke.

They thought, wouldn't it be ridiculous if we all dress up in tuxedos like this kind of style, you know, and, and look like a serious orchestra and then sort of pull the rug from the audience's feet and do shaft or play some punk rock or then play a little bit of classical music or motorhead or, you know, that's, and I think we are primarily like the live experience. And I suppose if you oversaturate with, with, with screen stuff, then people think, Oh, I've sort of seen it all. Yeah.

[The Trout] (19:08 - 19:37)

Yeah. Well, that's a bad downside. That's a downside to it too, because, but the other thing is, and it's funny about just like my podcast, I every day, not every day, every other day, I'll look to see where my podcast was listened to.

I can't even describe the towns they are. I mean, they might be in the middle of India might be in the middle of Thailand, you know, I never know. I have to, sometimes I get the names.

I'm going like, give me Google earth. Where is this?

[Guy Hargreaves] (19:38 - 19:42)

So can you see that on your, on your, on the staff?

[The Trout] (19:42 - 20:51)

Yeah. So I get, I get, I, I get, I can look at a report to see what people are listening to and where they're from. Right.

Okay, great. What's happened now just a little bit of information is I'm in over 3,500 cities worldwide, 120 some countries, but they only tell me when a new city comes on. So if I look at it and go, okay, here's the top, all of these four cities have never been here before.

So every day it's like, if I want to look at it every day, where is, uh, what I can't even pronounce the name of this. And all I can think about guys, why are people listening to this? Because it's just, it's all over the place.

Yeah. My more popular podcasts I did, and of course this goes on YouTube too, was with a gentleman out of the Netherlands that a great player, he does his own show where he did complete album of Eric Clapton's live album. Right.

And he played a note for note and he was selling out everywhere. He's on, he's on tour now doing John Mayer, John Mayer, but that one is four years old and it still has people come to it.

[Guy Hargreaves] (20:51 - 21:05)

Yeah. It just kind of picks up momentum. And I think that, that has happened definitely with the uke with the ukuleles.

Um, some of those videos, like some of the Royal Albert Hall videos, psycho killer.

[The Trout] (21:06 - 21:28)

And yeah, that was the other one that gets a lot of psycho killer. Cause I was a big talking heads fan. I liked them, but I was listening, I was watching the promo that the center that you guys are playing in Richardson, they have a little minute and a half promo.

And I see her doing my buddy's easy top doing, uh, give me all your love. And I think is what it was. I think that, yeah.

And everybody's saying, yeah, that maybe that was last time.

[Guy Hargreaves] (21:29 - 21:30)

Maybe that was last time.

[The Trout] (21:30 - 21:42)

I think that's hilarious. I mean, the fact is that you're doing this thing and I'm sure a lot of the people in the crowd are older. I don't think you get a lot of teenagers showing up unless their parents.

[Guy Hargreaves] (21:42 - 22:31)

I think when we, the weird thing is when we do like, everyone has a great time. And, uh, I think we'd love, we love the audiences that we get. We love, you know, giving people a good time and everyone, everyone enjoys the show generally.

But, um, yeah, it's sort of interesting because ukuleles in the UK, they're now taught in school. Like they've quite regularly taught as the first musical instrument. Um, so maybe as that kind of keeps going, younger audiences will come in, but, um, and as, like you say, we do put some newer stuff into the, into the show.

Um, but you are right. It's an older demographic at the moment. Yeah.

[The Trout] (22:31 - 23:09)

Well, as I say, our money's green, like everybody else and they they're probably anticipating already. Okay. When are they going to do psycho killer?

Are they going to do psycho killer today? You know, they already kind of dissipated. Then you throw in some Bolero by Ravel and you're like, well, where'd that come from?

You know? And, and all that. But, um, let me ask you about the instruments.

Cause normally I get people on here. I go, what kind of guitar are you playing? What kind of, you know, how do we get into that?

Cause that's what I do. Ukuleles. You play, you play two different types on stage.

You play like a soprano or you play a standard. What do you play?

[Guy Hargreaves] (23:10 - 23:52)

Well, I, I play concert ukulele. Okay. Now that's a little bit bigger, right?

Than the standard. Yeah. A little bit bigger than the soprano.

Um, last year I was playing a soprano with a concert neck. So like a hybrid, which was concert size body with a little bit of a longer neck. Uh, and, but within the band, um, there's maybe four types, um, concert, uh, soprano, uh, tenor and, um, a bass baritone and maybe a baritone actually our new player this year is probably going to play a baritone.

Yeah.

[The Trout] (23:56 - 24:38)

Well, I assume all of them are made of wood, right? Yeah. Okay.

And they're nylon strings. So, well, whatever that you guys use now to use metal, you don't use metal strings to hear. No, no.

The bass has got strings on it. Wow. But you guys all play nylon or something similar to, because they're made out of wood.

And I know because I have an acoustic nylon string guitar, they, they're hard to keep in tune because the weather affects them so much. Now the guitar is obviously bigger, but that, do you guys have trouble on stage managing, keeping them in tune? Do you have to stop occasionally to look at it?

Or I guess my question is how do you tune them when you're there? Do you have a floor tuner or how do you guys keep.

[Guy Hargreaves] (24:38 - 24:46)

The bass has a floor tuner. Okay. The bass, because it's plugged in, but we've all got little, um, Oh, you put them on the neck.

[The Trout] (24:46 - 24:46)

Yeah.

[Guy Hargreaves] (24:46 - 25:06)

Just little on the headstock. Yeah. Little clips.

And we, you know, we don't, we're not tuning between every song, but if there's, if we know we've got a sensitive song coming up, that's very delicate, we, we generally make an effort to make sure we're in tune.

[The Trout] (25:06 - 25:10)

Yeah. And what's the notes on a ukulele? Do you know what?

[Guy Hargreaves] (25:13 - 25:22)

I, I don't, I, I, I could think about and tell you, but I'm not going to embarrass myself because I'm, I don't think in notes, I think in shapes.

[The Trout] (25:23 - 25:26)

Okay. He's got like a D shape or an F shape or a C shape.

[Guy Hargreaves] (25:26 - 25:47)

No, but like, yeah. So, and, um, when I'm tuning it, I know that it's a G. I can't even tell you is that that's poor.

Isn't it? Like when I think about chords, I don't necessarily, I mean, I've got, I'm looking at tablature.

[The Trout] (25:47 - 25:48)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[Guy Hargreaves] (25:48 - 25:51)

No, I'm learning. I'm physically learning.

[The Trout] (25:51 - 26:03)

Looking at the physical shape of it, the physical shapes of it. Yeah. So you don't really care.

I mean, it's not that you don't care, but I can appreciate that because once you're in tune, you go ACG, whatever it is.

[Guy Hargreaves] (26:04 - 26:04)

Yeah.

[The Trout] (26:04 - 26:21)

And then you're in tune and I can understand it because I, because when I watch somebody on TV or movies playing guitar, I can tell immediately whether it's fake or not, because I'm a guitarist. I go, that's, they're just making stuff up. And I watched the shapes that you guys play because I recognize some of them.

[Guy Hargreaves] (26:21 - 26:21)

Yeah.

[The Trout] (26:21 - 27:00)

Because you know, like the D shape, that's pretty common. And I'll see like an F shape or, you know, something similar to that. And I noticed that because, and I think I tried a ukulele once.

I had a dulcimer one time too. And I thought, oh, that'd be kind of cool. So, but I don't have any used for a ukulele, not in what I do.

But because wood has, you know, expands and contracts, like all the guitars here, if I'm going to, I was using the Les Paul yesterday, recording something. I've been sitting up there for just a couple of days. It was already out of tune and normally stays in tune.

It's just the weather, you know, but I, that was kind of curious.

[Guy Hargreaves] (27:00 - 27:02)

But you've got extremes of weather over there.

[The Trout] (27:02 - 27:09)

Yeah. I mean, right. And also humidity and all that stuff.

So do you, and I looked, I guess you guys use floor monitors, right? To hear everybody.

[Guy Hargreaves] (27:10 - 28:11)

Yeah. Playback on the, on the floor monitors. Yeah.

That's what we're, we don't have in ears or anything like that. You know, there are some incredible around me, some incredible musicians in the band, but on top of that are sound engineers, Verena, who comes with tour with on tour with us in America and Germany and Graham in the UK, like what they're adding into the kind of experience for us, making it easier and, you know, make, letting us hear everything that we need to hear. And then the live mix that they're doing.

I remember when I saw the show and I couldn't believe the kind of wall of sound that was coming from seven little things, you know, little ukuleles. It's a massive, massive part is sound engineers. You know, we'd so grateful to have such talented people on that side.

Well, that makes a break there behind the desk.

[The Trout] (28:11 - 29:12)

That's the one thing people don't understand. I tell them all the time and you just kind of reinforce it when you're back there playing, it doesn't sound anything. Like it does that front.

No, you know, and you kind of get over that part of, you have to get used to it. And then, cause I used to be wireless when we're doing a sound check, I'd go out with my guitar because we had somebody run the sound, but I'd go still go, okay, do something over here. Okay.

I didn't know I had monitor in front of me, but that's the other thing. And like, you just got, you're saying you're sitting there playing. And then all of a sudden you go out there.

It's kind of like when you go to the studio the first time and you're singing, they put you in front of a $10,000 Neumann mic. And you're like, you hear yourself singing. You're like, well, I got to get good real fast.

You have the same thing, although you've already been doing it, which I was going to ask you this. So when you set out, are you, I didn't look all the time. How many dates do you do in a year?

No matter what it is, where are you going?

[Guy Hargreaves] (29:14 - 29:23)

Like, I mean, some, some thing like between 70 and a hundred. A lot.

[Intro Speaker] (29:23 - 29:23)

Yeah.

[Guy Hargreaves] (29:24 - 29:47)

This year, beginning of this year has been really busy. So we did nearly, we did 16 dates in Europe, probably done five or six in the UK. Then we're going to do 20 in America when we come.

Yeah. So that'd be half a year. We'll be near enough 50.

So between 70 and a hundred.

[The Trout] (29:48 - 29:59)

So when you get ready to start another tour, let's say, do you have like a calendar and you say like, okay, this is year 2026. We're going to put something together. You guys,

Thank you for listening www.TheTroutShow.com