Martin Ditcham - The Drums Behind the Legends

Martin Ditcham - The Drums Behind the Legends [Speaker 1]

Meet Martin Ditcham, one of Britain's most versatile drummers and percussionists.

[Speaker 3]

He's been laying down grooves for decades, surrounded by rhythm from day one. Over that time, he's corrittened the sweetest taboo with shoddy, grooved on the Rolling Stones undercover, powered Chris Rea's classics like Driving Home for Christmas and added swing to Elton John, Tina Turner, Talk Talk, and Everything but the Girl. From studio wizardry to live fire, he's the heartbeat behind some of pop's biggest moments.

Now, here's The Trout with Martin in this exclusive interview. Enjoy. I know what the weather's like where you are.

[Speaker 2]

It's 26 degrees most of the time, it doesn't probably change too much.

[Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Speaker 2]

I've never heard of the city. Tell me why you're there.

[Speaker 1]

Well, several reasons. My wife's Brazilian and she's from here. Ah, okay.

And her mother was getting ill and she was getting old, late 80s, 90s. She passed away sadly last year or two years ago. Five years ago, COVID hit and all of a sudden, recording remotely became the norm.

People would say, oh, can you record, can you, if we send you some music, can you record on it and send it back? I said, well, I don't have any equipment. Anyway, the long and the short is, I thought, wait a minute, we might as well, seeing as everything's shut down, we might as well, we're going to live, we're going to live at your mother's house.

You, you're desperate to look after her and I can work from here. There's a little local studio and they can send music there. I can play on it and then send it back.

So that's what we did. Five years ago, when COVID was happening, we came here, Sylvana, my wife, looked after her mother and I carried on recording remotely and, and enjoying the 365 days of heat, heat and sunshine, which you don't get in England. Obviously in Dallas, you get a real summer, a hot, hot summer.

[Speaker 2]

Oh yeah, it's really hot here.

[Speaker 1]

I mean, we, we get, well, you know about England, I mean, it's, it's dull and overcast a lot of the time. If it gets to 25 degrees, everybody's going crazy and it's, but that only happens for a couple of days in the year, you know, so it's.

[Speaker 2]

So what part of, where did you live? Did you live in London?

[Speaker 1]

West London. Yeah. Opposite Olympia.

Opposite Olympia. Hammersmith.

[Speaker 2]

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Hammersmith, yeah.

[Speaker 1]

Hammersmith, yeah. West Kensington. Opposite Olympia.

And we kept, kept the flat there. My daughter lives in it and, and that's the long and the short of it really. And I'm still active, working from this studio up the road and people send music, I contribute to it, send it back and everybody seems to be happy.

It seems to be working pretty well.

[Speaker 2]

Thinking about when you first started, how things have changed.

[Speaker 1]

When I first started? Yeah.

[Speaker 2]

When you started recording and, and think about. Yeah. The multi-track recording and all that stuff.

And I remember when digital came out in the 80s, an interesting thing, because you made a comment on this interview about Ry Cooter, which I was still a big fan of Ry, still, still around, doesn't do anything hardly anymore. Ry's album was, Pop Till You Drop was the first digitally recorded album.

[Speaker 1]

Exactly. Excellent album.

[Speaker 2]

Excellent. But the funny thing about it is that they had to transfer to, to, to analog because they didn't have the way of doing it, you know. So it was recorded in digital, but they transferred it to the analog because, well, I bought the album back then.

But think about it now, which is really kind of unique, the fact that you still can be doing what you're doing, love what you're doing, do it when you want to do it. And, and that's got to be really nice to be able to do that. Do you, do you miss the, the touring?

I mean, I know touring is a, is a, is a painful experience to a certain degree. When's the last time you went on tour?

[Speaker 1]

With Chris? 2019. That, during that Bellwise session.

[Speaker 2]

Yeah.

[Speaker 1]

That was the last, last big tour I did. He always used to go away for two or three months and it was always very, very, we were well looked after in five star hotels and private jet around Russia and the Baltic States. And he was a generous man and looked after us and the touring was never painful.

There is a point where you just, it doesn't matter how great the hotel is, you're kind of sick of being in a, you have to change that room every day. You're in a different room. But yes, it was always a pleasure with him.

But I don't miss touring. I've been around the world several times. So I kind of know, I know the major cities, right?

And they all blend into each other, as you probably know yourself, I'm sure you've traveled. I mean, I've not been to India or Africa or, but I mean, up here is pretty third world and we're on the mouth of the Amazon.

[Speaker 2]

I saw that. I was looking at a map to see where you were.

[Speaker 1]

Yeah. And so there's a lot, a large percentage of the population from an indigenous background, you know, so me with the blondish hair and the blue eyes, I do get stared at. I feel I'm the lone gringo in this town.

But yeah, the touring, I don't go back to the touring. I don't miss it, although it's enjoyable for two or certainly two or three weeks is great.

[Speaker 2]

Three months is stretching it a bit. What kind of music do people ask you to perform on? Is it all different types?

[Speaker 1]

Yes, it is. It's not Brazilian music because I don't. I've been invited to do things here, but I don't want to tread on anybody's toes.

So I just do things for people. I'm doing something for a band as we speak from Canada. I did their last album called Unessential Oils.

And they're very, very good. They're a kind of, I don't know how to describe it, jazzy lo-fi, would they call it?

[Speaker 2]

OK, I know what that means.

[Speaker 1]

But they're all playing live. They're very, very good. I did something just before Christmas, seven tracks for a kind of folky guy from the north of England, a bit kind of Ritchie Havens, if you like.

[Speaker 2]

Yeah.

[Speaker 1]

So, yes, a cross section of music, really, but mainly rocky, poppy, commercial, three minute songs. I mean, although Unessential Oils are longer pieces of music, but mainly commercial.

[Speaker 2]

So they send you the tracks and say they give you an idea, I mean, what they're looking for. You've done it now with them. So you probably pretty well figured out what they want.

[Speaker 1]

Well, they trust me. Yeah. Most of the people that I work for now, I work for one producer regularly and he just says, do you know, do it, do your thing and see if the artist likes it, because they're in the.

They have to please the artist, so it's kind of and most of the time it works. Some of the time they say, oh, can you do so and so again? And I record in a different way.

I would record like drums. I do drums based on snare and hi-hat, and then I'd record the cymbals and toms separately. So they can have.

Yeah. So they can have control. So it's I don't do a complete drum track and they say, oh, I wish you hadn't played the ride cymbal.

I wish you hadn't crashed here. Yeah. They can literally just.

And I believe Phil Ramone in the Steve Gadd days with Simon and Garfunkel or Paul Simon, he quite often worked that way. They'd add they'd add toms afterwards and then make a feature of the toms. You can bring the toms up louder without.

[Speaker 2]

That's interesting.

[Speaker 1]

I didn't know that. Having the whole drum kit coming up. Yeah.

Yeah. So they have control. I can hopefully deliver something that they like and everybody's happy, you know, and I can deliver a streamlined arrangement.

You send something doing something off the top of my head. I can keep going over it. And usually the first idea is the one that works.

But I can add, take away, add, take away and then deliver what I feel is right. So I love I love it myself.

[Speaker 2]

Well, and I think the great thing about it is because you're the talent you have and you've been doing it for so long, you already pretty well know what people want. You don't have to go into it. You get to do what you do, what you were born to do.

I'm a big believer in all the I've interviewed probably over 200 people, more than that. Everybody and I read a little bit about your bio. I'm not going to go into when you started all that stuff.

But the bottom line is I think people are just born with this music thing. You know, you said you were born to play drums, which I believe I was born to play guitar.

[Speaker 1]

Yeah, well, my dad was a drummer. So it's kind of it was inevitable, really.

[Speaker 2]

What did he what kind of music did he play?

[Speaker 1]

Big band. That's what I figured. The 40s, 40s.

Yeah, he's. He loved Count Basie, he said, funnily enough, in our day that we had the Rolling Stones camp and we had the Beatles camp. And in his day, it was it was Count Basie or Duke Ellington.

Count Basie was the driving big band. Ellington was a bit more of a thinker's band, still wonderful, of course. But yeah, he always used to say that.

But yeah, so he was big band, big band, never pro, semi pro.

[Speaker 2]

Well, that's where you listen to that. But the thing about it is, like you said, the Beatles and the Rolling Stone camp, I remember those days.

[Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Speaker 2]

People nowadays, young people, they don't understand what that meant. They don't. I mean, they can't figure out.

We see all these people like Taylor Swift and all those people that come along and go. But I was watching somebody talk about the Grammys this time. Friend of mine was at the Grammys and they were talking about who was up for Grammys this year versus 40 years ago.

And they said, do you think these people this on the Grammys this year will be listened to 40 years from now? Probably not. But you know this, the Beatles, you can't tell people how the Beatles changed the music industry.

You just can't. You had to live through it. And and I know you worked with Jagger on Undercover or whatever was one of the tunes.

[Speaker 1]

That's right. That's right.

[Speaker 2]

But but that controlled. And the other thing I think you guys had over there was the fact you mentioned these two artists, Count Basie and Duke Ellington, they're Americans. Yeah.

You guys are in the UK. We're all going like, oh, my God, we always look.

[Speaker 1]

We always look to America. Yeah. The Beatles were looking to America and the Beach Boys were looking to the Beatles after, I think, as Charles and Pepper or whatever it was and the birds and the birds.

And we were idolizing the birds.

[Speaker 2]

And it's it's funny. The only time I've been there, I've been the UK. It's been a long time ago.

But I remember I going over there one time and this lady said to me, you guys come over here to look at the old buildings. We go to America to look at the new buildings. Yeah, exactly.

Exactly. We get sick of seeing 1500, you know, 1512 building is like you guys got a brand new building just built. And we're like, oh, look at that.

[Speaker 1]

Exactly. Just going back to the Beatles. I don't know about you when you were younger, but we were so saturated with the Beatles.

They were had two or three singles in the top three. They were in all the shops and everywhere. You got absolutely.

That's all you saw. That's all you saw. And you kind of.

I didn't like the Beatles at the time because they just drove. You couldn't get away from them. Obviously, I love the Beatles now.

[Speaker 2]

I understand.

[Speaker 1]

I appreciate them now, but we were really saturated with it. And probably the same in America. I don't know.

[Speaker 2]

After that show, I was I was sitting in my bedroom making a plastic model car. My brother is six years older than me. Come in and he said, you got to listen to this.

My parents weren't music people, but they still had 78s, you know, that still had kept when they were that kind of music. But he comes. You got to listen to this.

He brings his radio on. It's I want to hold your hand by the Beatles. I go, who's that?

And of course, then it took over and we all watch Ed Sullivan the night the Beatles came on and all that stuff. And he's screaming and hard days night. But I was more I like the Beatles because it was just well, like you said, we were saturated with we were all saturated with.

Groups from England, the Mercy Beat, the Liverpool sound, the stones, all these people that came over. And I was more I was more into the stones because I kind of like the bad boy image, not that I would ever be a bad boy. But, you know, that kind of that I don't really care what you think.

We're going to do this.

[Speaker 1]

Yeah, we couldn't have we weren't allowed to have long hair in those days.

[Speaker 2]

Oh, yeah, it was a big deal.

[Speaker 1]

I'd have your hair cut. Otherwise you'd be you'd be in trouble. Yes.

So that's right. We used to look up to them.

[Speaker 2]

So let me ask you, how did you get started when it came to becoming like a session guy? Were you playing with other bands and people started saying, hey, come in. I want to do the sessions because I mean, I saw the people you've worked with in the past decades, but how did that get started?

[Speaker 1]

I don't know. It was just one thing led to another. I got invited.

I don't know what it was. The first thing I ever did, but you work in a studio, a small studio somewhere, and the engineer in that small studio might progress to a bigger studio and remember your what you did, and then they will recommend you to somebody. It's absolutely word of mouth.

I mean, you can't push your heart to push your way into that business. Unless you've got the goods to deliver, obviously. But it was literally word of mouth.

I mean, one thing led to another. And I did. I did.

That's what I did. A tour with a band called Marshall Hain, who had a number one single called Dancing in the City, did that tour. And that that led to working with their producer, who when they split up, Marshall Hain were a duo.

They went their separate ways and then their separate producers got me in as a result of them recommending me. And it just kind of snowballed. Yeah.

[Speaker 2]

Well, did you ever think, though, when you started out, because I did my research, I look at I kind of deep dive into a lot of people if I can find stuff about them, but let's I was going to bring it up, but I got to because I watched the video.

[Speaker 1]

Hmm.

[Speaker 2]

Because Sade has been one of the people that I've always kind of followed, but she never does anything. She kind of keeps to herself and comes out last time, like 14 years ago in 2011.

[Speaker 1]

Well, she's only she's only done what? Five albums in.

[Speaker 2]

Yeah, she doesn't. 50 years. Yeah.

[Speaker 1]

I mean, well, she had complete artistic control from day one. So which was quite rare, I presume. I think you normally have a contract.

You have to deliver an album every.

[Speaker 2]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 1]

So she had complete artistic control, which is very unusual back then, which is why you've got the gaps. I suppose there was no pressure at all.

[Speaker 2]

But carry on. Sorry. Well, no, no, no.

So I pulled up Sweetest Taboo. Yeah. Yeah.

Hundred twenty four million views. And I look here and I go, I know that drummer that's playing that little beat in the back. So I bet you because I was figuring your age and my age and I said, I bet you he was the oldest one in the room at the time because the rest of the guys would stand around.

I don't know how old she was. I said it was at the time. But I thought he's probably the oldest guy in the room.

But being like 30, the rest of them are probably about 23 years old.

[Speaker 1]

Well, you've got it about right. They were about 10 years, eight years younger than me. And yeah.

[Speaker 2]

Yeah. Did you ever have any thought about when you did that tune that it was going to ever be? I always wonder about this.

People, did you think it was going to be as big as it did? Did you have any thoughts about that? Or do you say that's a song I helped on and we'll go?

[Speaker 1]

Not really. I, I, I, I always fiddled around at home. I know I'm going to get a keyboard here and a guitar.

I'm I'm not. You know, I'm not a keyboard player or a guitar player, but I know my way around. And I was fiddling around with something with a drum.

There was a drum machine and there was a guitar. I did bass and keyboards. In a it's kind of a meter's.

Neville Brothers, if the truth be known. And and one day we were doing a lot of TV's at the time going from one to the other. And I took a cassette of this backing track and she I gave it to her and she put put on a cassette Walkman, which we all remember in those days.

Yeah, she listened to it and she loved the backing track. So she walked away, ran away, walked away. And and added added vocals and lyric lyrics and melody, and we recorded it.

And then, yes, that was the third single. So by that time, she was well established after Smooth Operator and Your Love is King. So it was sort of.

It wasn't inevitable she was going to do well, but she was doing well then, so it was.

[Speaker 2]

Yeah, I forgot about Smooth Operator.

[Speaker 1]

On a plate, on a plate.

[Speaker 2]

Well, the thing I always liked about her was it's kind of like Prince. They have I don't know what they're you know what they're like personally, because you do or you know her. But they have this mystique about them, which they love doing.

Prince was that way. I always had this weird thing. Sade always seems like she doesn't.

She keeps it's kind of like Enya, you know, the singer. Yeah, yeah. They don't do any.

You don't see him anywhere. They don't talk much when they do. They don't say much.

And it's like it's this mystique kind of thing. And then they come out and they do their thing. You're like, OK, I know they talk sometime, but because.

But but that was the thing I liked about her. And then when she came over here in 2011 and she released the video for live performance, I thought this is just different. I mean, it's just completely different.

But you the years that you've been playing, you play with a lot of different people. I mean, you know, I mean, I look at the people that you you perform with or session with and. What do you think?

I know somebody asked you this. And it was interesting when you said, who would you like to perform with? What I wanted to ask you about was tell me a little bit about how Chris Rhea.

This is the thing I like hearing about. Did you guys go into a warehouse or what did you do to to get ready for a tour? What did you I mean, what did you rehearse?

[Speaker 1]

We'd rehearse what we'd rehearse in a. Quite often rehearsing an outhouse of his house in the last 20 odd years, 30 odd years, and then for the final. Three days before the tour, there would be a full rig set up in.

Yeah, like a warehouse or a film film studio. And and we do we do two or three days with the full lighting rig and sound rig, and we'd run the show a couple of times a day and they practice the lights and the sound. And so, yes, there would be a warehouse stroke film studio where we go in.

[Speaker 2]

Well, he he's he was kind of a mystical person, too. He didn't have a lot of I wouldn't. You know, there are some people that get up and they get Clapton's kind of like this, too.

He just gets up and plays. And he doesn't have a lot of banter is like, thank you. After the song, one hit at boom, boom, boom.

Chris was the same way. You watch the video and it was like next, next, next. Thank you very much.

That's it. I'm gone.

[Speaker 1]

He doesn't say a word, never said a word. He might say thank you or Dankeschön if we were in Germany, but but that would be it. Yeah, he's.

Yeah, you're right. She's a bit like Sade in that he never chased the limelight. You know, he was not at every at the opening of an envelope.

You know, is it he didn't go to openings and whatever.

[Speaker 2]

It wasn't important to.

[Speaker 1]

You know, and this wasn't important to Sade either. You know, she could have. I mean, I know that she was offered big contracts with all the big perfume.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Fashion houses.

She turned them all down. She just. She's got she's got ultimately she's got taste.

And it wasn't about I'm sure she wasn't thinking of brand. She just got taste. She wasn't after, you know, no, like prostituting yourself.

[Speaker 2]

And she's like, you know, she did what she did. She liked performing. You know, I mentioned in you earlier because she was so hugely popular.

So millions.

[Speaker 1]

Same deal. Same deal.

[Speaker 2]

Lives in Ireland. I was got Ireland, I guess I'm out of Scotland or where she lives.

[Speaker 1]

But I mean, she lives in Ireland in the castle, allegedly in the castle.

[Speaker 2]

But, you know, you mentioned the fact that you liked Donald Fagan. Those guys were the same way. You know, Fagan and Becker, they didn't they didn't like the limelight.

Exactly. I think they said something about I want to walk down the street. Nobody knows who I am.

And you played with a lot of people that you do you still. Do you still have people that contact you that are famous or should say well-known that say, can you put some music on here? Do you have people that still, you know, are they mostly newer artists that are looking for a session artist?

[Speaker 1]

Well, yeah, my main connections have been with Sade, Chris Rea and Talk Talk. And fans of those three artists, music, musicians who admire those people tend to be the ones or producers tend to be the ones that get in contact. And.

Yes, it's. It's people who've heard what I've done. Put me as a result of listening to those records.

[Speaker 2]

You know, it's funny, too, because you don't fit. The rock mold, you don't look like a rock star, you don't act like a rock star, you you you you just I'm a British guy that does plays drums. But I don't say you're retired, but you're kind of retired.

You're still I mean, you're still doing your thing, but you're not doing your thing. You know what I mean?

[Speaker 1]

So exactly what I'm still I've got a regimented kind of regime where I play a bit of piano in the day and a bit of guitar and a bit of converse. And I practice a little bit on the practice bed. So I kind of keep the routine going.

I mean, the thing with touring, you kind of it's strange to be back after a week or so, two weeks. But then you kind of get used to it. I mean, I know after every tour, when I was single, I used to go to the hotel, nearest hotel and have breakfast there every day near where I live because I just could get not get used to going down for the hotel breakfast.

But but now after a couple of weeks, you get settled and touring now. I don't know. Yeah, you're right.

Maybe, you know, as we're that much older and. Have no yearning to to see Australia again, although it's fun.

[Speaker 2]

Well, now, but you can go when you want to try to go. Yeah, I mean, you go and say, I want to go to Australia or whatever. And I, I, I, I don't miss the fast pace.

I mean, I was involved in business. I was boom, boom, boom. We had to keep moving and all that stuff and all that.

But but there are days I get up and go, well, what am I going to do today? And either I'm going to go in and do a new podcast or I'll do one. I do some I do a lot of interviews, obviously.

Then I do another one's called vital to viral. I talk about. Yeah, I'm I'm getting ready to do one.

I forgot I called the title, but am I am I am I too old for the music nowadays? I don't sound like my parents. It's like I don't understand all of it now.

And it's like, OK, why don't I keep it? But I'm not alone because the number I tell you what's interesting about my my channels is the majority of people listen or watch our baby boomers.

[Speaker 3]

Mm hmm.

[Speaker 2]

Jordy, I'm over sixty five, fifty five plus. And I interview a lot of younger artists and things like that. But I know what they're and I figure if they're listening to music like I do and go, I don't get all this stuff nowadays, what is this?

And it's like, oh, my God, we're turning into our parents because my parents, we had to watch Lawrence Welk. That was.

[Speaker 1]

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, we didn't have Lawrence Welk, but.

Yeah, I try to keep ahead of that and try to take in rap and. Oh, I do, too. And I'm just trying to understand it.

But the other day, there was something I heard. It was a soul funk track. It was wonderful, wonderful tempo, great singer, melody and everything.

I thought, oh, got to get the name of this guy and. And I read the small print and I was sick to my stomach was on YouTube, it was AI. Oh, and I always thought, oh, I, I'm going to recognize the difference between AI and whatever.

And after I was told it was AI, yes, it was so perfect and so clinical. That was the telltale sign.

[Speaker 2]

Yeah, I was too.

[Speaker 1]

It was too tidy. But my God, it was very impressive. I have to say.

[Speaker 2]

What would you like to do? Would you like people to send you more music? I mean, are you just looking?

I mean, I say that. OK.

[Speaker 1]

Yeah, yeah. As I said, I got five songs from this Canadian band.

[Speaker 2]

I'm going to look them up. I wrote their name down.

[Speaker 1]

They're from Canada. Yeah. And very, very good.

Great songwriter. Warren Spicer is the is the kind of brains behind it. He had I believe he had success as a solo artist in Canada.

They're very, very good. They're they're on they're on Spotify and YouTube. And then.

Yeah, there's different people. Stuart Epps is a producer, engineer. He engineered the last.

Led Zeppelin album, and he did Jimmy Page's records, and he's got a little company, he sends me music quite regularly, and I record on that. So I've got a handful of people who keep coming back and. So I have to be race ready, if you like, so I don't kind of let my guard down too much, you know, I still practice just in case, you know.

[Speaker 2]

Well, you still have to if they've sent you that keeps your chops up.

[Speaker 1]

Yeah. I mean, I was never a technician. I'm not doing fancy stuff, but just to keep my eye in, as it were.

[Speaker 2]

You know, you just I didn't ask you this because I'm a good friend of mine. It's a drummer. What what's your what do you see?

What did you play when you what brand did you play? When you on tour, what was your favorite? Did you play Tammy or Tammy or whatever it was?

Sona, Sona, Sona. OK, OK.

[Speaker 1]

Yeah, well, I had a deal early on and. During the Chris Rea Chardais days at the beginning in the early 80s, and they offered me a deal.

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