Rock and Roll Hall of Fame - Where Money Talks and Rock Walks

Rock and Roll Hall of Fame 

[Speaker 1]

Hey everybody, this is the Trout and welcome to another episode of Vinyl to Viral here on the Trout Show. Glad you're here with us today because we've got a great show today to talk about something that's been quite controversial the last few years in the music business and that is the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. And that is, you know, who's been included, who's not included, who's been excluded, and why they keep doing people that we don't even know why they're even in there.

And why the people in there should be in there and not in there. Okay, so take a deep breath because I did my research and I can tell you what I think about the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. And I can tell you this, money talks, rock walks.

That's next on the Trout Show.

[Speaker 2]

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[Speaker 1]

Welcome back to the show where we're going to look into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. I'm going to give you my opinion on what's happened and what's happening and what I think is going to happen in the future. You probably won't like what I'm going to tell you, but I'm going to tell you what I think.

The first thing I want to tell you is the IRS designation that the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is. That's called a 501c3. That's just a designation the IRS gives to businesses, nonprofits, or different types.

But that particular one, the 501c3, is actually a nonprofit status that people like you and businesses can donate and write it off their income tax, which is important because that's what people like to do when they donate. I mean, obviously, businesses giving big money, they want to be able to write it off their business income tax. So that's the first thing I want you to understand.

It is a business. It has a president, it has a board of directors, and it has a board chair, which is important to what we're going to talk about as we go along in this discussion about the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Now, let's go back to the beginning.

1983, Ahmet Erdogan, who was the head honcho of Atlantic Records, was talking to Jan Winner, who started Rolling Stone magazine, and they came up with the idea, hey, let's have a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. No fancy profits at first. It was all about bringing artists in so people can enjoy and honor the people that became rock stars.

Now, Cleveland won the bid. Now, you're probably wondering, why is it Cleveland there? Well, they won the bid in 86 because that city ponied up 65 million dollars of the 92 million bucks it was going to take to build the building.

And they put in public money from taxes, bonds, that kind of thing. The rest of the money came from private donors, corporate pledges, and some foundation cash. Ground broke in 93 opened in 95.

Boom! The wild glass pyramid thing on Lake Erie. They kept it rolling as a 501c3.

No owners taking dividends, which by the way, just so you know, a non-501c3 can't make any money. And they don't make anything. In other words, they don't build a product.

They provide services. That's how they get the designation with the IRS. They had to reinvest all the money back into the company.

That's how 501c3s work. So, how are they doing financially? You say, well, in 2024, from the last IRS filing that you can find, they grow 65 million bucks in revenue.

45 million expenses, netting 20 million. Over half the contributions, like donations, grants, and sponsorships. That's where the money comes from.

About 29 percent from program services. Ticket sales, events, merch, you know, that kind of thing. The gift shop.

Then they have investments, rentals, royalties. They're small but steady. Visitors.

That's what they want to come to the Hall of Fame. Pump in tons of money. Back in 2017, they drove over 127 million into local spending plus 13 million in taxes for Cleveland School.

So, they're helping Cleveland and giving money back and providing services to the local economy, which is a great thing to do. So, who's been running this organization? Who's the dude that keeps things going?

The president. His name is Gregory Harris. He joined the organization back in 2008.

He was a VP of Development and Government Affairs and overseeing fundraising, special events, you know, stuff like that, membership. In 2013, he became the president. Now, I have to admit, when I looked at this, I thought, where is Mr. Harris's background from?

Now, I'm going to explain this to you because you may not know this because I always, I do personally, like to hear or see people that are involved in a business that are running it have experience in that business. But, a lot of times nowadays, what you see is people that are successful in other businesses coming over and running another business. And they may not have a lot of experience except how to actually run and make a business profitable.

Harris has a background in music, which kind of surprised me. He spent 14 years working at the National Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown. He worked there for a long time.

But, what I was concerned about, does he have any background in music? Well, his music roots do run deep, which was I was happy to find out. In the 80s, right after high school, he co-founded and ran what they called the Philadelphia Record Exchange, which was a shop specializing in rare used and indie vinyl records to us older folks, covering soul, blues, country, folk, punk, and rock.

He even at one time road managed a touring band and played guitar in garage bands, even though he admits he was that great, he was mediocre. He's a native of Pennsylvania and he holds a Bachelor's of Arts degree in history from Temple University. But, here's the key thing about Mr. Harris. Under his watch, the Rock Hall of Fame has seen huge growth. He's tripled the revenue from 19 million in his first full year to over 50 million recently. Well, over that now.

Attendance, excuse me, has also grown a lot and it hit 1.5 million annually, with total visitors have surpassed, that's all the all the years have been there, close to 15 million people. And because that many people are coming to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, it's generated close to two billion dollars for the Cleveland economy to help out, which of course is a great thing if you're in Cleveland because the fact they're bringing that extra income to people there in Cleveland, which is great. But one of the things that we've seen in the last few years is Mr. Harris's approach and how people are nominated and eventually become honorees of Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Now his approach is, when it comes to music, is rock music or Rock and Roll Hall of Fame should be considered a big tent, which should encompass broader influences, not just rock music. And I'm going to tell you why. But let's first look at people that were nominated in the very first year that the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame launched.

Now when you hear this list from 86 of the first year that they had honorees, you're probably gonna say, wait a minute, those people aren't rock musicians either. But they had huge influences in the 50s and the early 60s. So here's who was the group of people that got the first nod in the first ballot to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

Chuck Berry, James Brown, Ray Charles, Sam Cooke, Vats Domino, the Everly Brothers, Buddy Holly, Jerry Lee Lewis, Little Richard, Elvis Presley, Big Joe Turner, Muddy Waters, Bo Diddley, and the coasters and early influences of rock music, Robert Johnson, Jimmy Yancey, and John Hammond. Those were the first ones. And you're probably saying, wait a minute, those aren't a lot of rock music.

No, but they had a giant influence on, like I said, they had a huge influence in the music that we listen to now. The next year, though, was the first year that they honored pure rock music, what we consider rock musicians. There's only four bands that got in, and you'll recognize all, well, one individual in three bands.

Of course, the big kahuna is the Beatles. The second one's the Rolling Stones. Then Bob Dylan, you're like, wait a minute, Bob Dylan's a folk guy.

Well, he wrote a lot of songs that rock musicians played, and I can only think, what would it be like with having Jimi Hendrix all along the watchtower that Bob Dylan wrote wasn't existing. Man. And then, of course, the Beach Boys.

They were all 60s icons. No blues, no R&B, just straight rock and roll as we know it. So what's happened?

What's happened over the last few years that's created such a controversy that people, every time they give the nominees out, and I'm gonna say something about that, and that is how they make, how do you get on the nominee list? Well, what they do and how they decide who's gonna be on the list, it's pretty opaque. This year they had, I think, David Groh and Questlove was on the people that actually chose the list together, along with some other people, and apparently it goes out to a bunch of people that they decide, okay, those are the ones we're gonna put in.

It's not real clear-cut how it all gets in, but let's look at the people the last three years that weren't rock musicians, that were nominees. We have Missy Ellett, who is a hip-hop pioneer, Cyndi Lauper, who is a pop, George Michael, pop, Willie Nelson, doesn't do any rock and roll or rock, The Spinners, great band, The Tribe Called Quest, they were an alternative hip-hop. Then in 24 we had Mariah Carey, Cher, oh, I'm sure I've heard Cher doing a rock music, haven't you?

Mary J. Blige, great singer, Sade, who I like a lot, Eric B. and Rakem, who is a old-school hip-hop, Cool in the Game, another great band, Cool in the Game.

The nominees for 2025 were Mariah Carey, never heard her singing a rock song in my life, Cyndi Lauper, which she repeated, both Mariah Carey and Cyndi both been in there before, Outkast, which is a hip-hop duo, Chubby Checker, who was the king of the twist, and Mana, who is a Latin, excuse me, Latin rock-pop fusion. So there's your controversy there. People don't like what?

These aren't rock musicians. And Head Honcho Harris says, well, hey, we have a Big Ten here at rock, we want to put more people in, not necessarily rock musicians. Well, let's talk about the rock musicians they never included in all the years they've been there that should be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

These are people, the bands, that have never been nominated. The Monkees, Steppenwolf, Captain Beefheart, Paul Revere's and the Raiders, now this is a big one here, Boston, Jethro Tull, Emerson Lake and Palmer, Styx, Motorhead, New York Dolls, Grand Funk Railroad, Blue Oyster Cult, and Super Tramp. Okay, you just look at that list your mind goes like, why aren't they in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame?

Can't tell you why, I can only guess, but that's exactly what it would be. What the current president, Harris, has in mind, and he said this more than once, that, you know, Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is a big tent. We should put more people in and not just rock musicians.

Now, here's my opinion on what's going on and why you probably like, if you're a rock purist, will not like what I got to say. First of all, the fact that they keep adding people that are rock music, not rock musicians, is all about driving more revenue. Okay, and the other thing is, I'm gonna be honest with you, there are not a lot of rock musicians, excuse me, rock musicians left out there for people to honor.

They're getting old, they're passing on, but we still have people that we should be honoring. So, let's go back to what I said. It's revenue based.

That's what I'm guessing, but I'm sure if I called him up and asked him, he'd probably tell me that in a roundabout way. This 501c needs to bring in more donations. So, the more musicians you bring in that are popular or have been popular, the more people are going to visit the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

The more money they make, the more people that show up buying tickets, buying merch, all this stuff with it. What I'd like to see happen is, first off, they're not the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. They are, but they should call it something else like the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Pop Musicians or Musician Museum.

What I'd like to see them do, as rock music continues to fade in the past, is go back and honor these famous musicians that they should have honored years ago, and then go ahead with what their idea is. Because I personally think that you're not going to see a change. As every year goes by, you're going to see more people like Cher, Willie Nelson.

Last year or one year, they had Dolly Parton in there. More of those people are going to become nominees. As I said at the beginning, money talks, rock walks.

That, of course, is my opinion, but keep an eye on it for the next few years and see if less rock musicians come in and more pop and popular hip-hop, all those other people come in for nominees. You may like it. You may not like it at all, but that's just what I believe is going to continue to happen.

And if the current board can continue to increase revenues, it's a business, folks. And even though it's a 501c3, you want to keep money coming in, which means more money to provide services to Cleveland and provide education services. So that's how business works in a real world.

I don't think that's going to change. So what I'd like to say, as I said earlier, and I'm going to come off of it, and that is money talks and rock walks. That's it for this episode of the Trout Show.

Thanks so much for sticking around and listening to it. I hope you enjoyed my opinion on the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and a little bit of history there for you. For more information about the Trout Show, just go to my website, thetroutshow.com, and you can find everything there, all the other podcasts, YouTube interviews, my music, and anything else you want to know about the Trout Show. I've done over 200 interviews. You probably can find somebody out there that you probably want to hear about. My handle on Instagram is Texas Rocker.

If you want to send me a message, please do so, and let me know if there's somebody you'd like me to interview. I'd like to see if I could get a hold of them and see if we can do that. Once again, I'd like to thank David Smith.

He's the guy that has supported this show since its inception. David Smith with Edward Chalmers. Thanks, David.

So until next time, people, you know what I always say. It's only rock and roll, but I love it. See ya.

Thank you for listening www.TheTroutShow.com