Blues Rock Power Couple: When Rivers Meet Interview with Grace & Aaron

Blues Rock Power Couple: When Rivers Meet Interview with Grace & Aaron

[The Trout]

I notice in all the stuff that you talk about, that you talk about being self-managed, independent. Yeah, fully. And we know what the record industry is like.

There is no records anymore. In fact, speaking of that, a blues artist I interviewed about a month or six weeks ago, he's still waiting on his vinyl. I noticed that you guys were excited about your vinyl already sold out, but he still can't get them.

So it seems to be that. But tell me why. I mean, I know why it's important to you, but why is it important to tell people about that, you think, that you're self-managed and with a label?

[Aaron - When Rivers Meet]

I think a lot of that is because being in the music industry is a tough job in itself. And I think as well, because we like to shout about it is because everything that we do and every choice that is made is made by us. Everything literally like the vinyl, like all the artwork, all the music, everything that we do.

We're fully in control of it all. And I think it's massively important nowadays for people to understand that. I say understand, but I think when you sign for a label, for instance, you kind of give a lot of that control away, if not all of it.

And not necessarily the artist has the decisions to be made, you know, and and that's a real shame. So it's kind of a I think it's kind of a cool thing to shout about.

[The Trout]

I agree with you. Forty percent. The last time I saw this, 40 percent of music released is independent artists now.

[Aaron - When Rivers Meet]

Yeah.

[The Trout]

And and my personal opinion about it, I know people are labels. I know people that want to go on labels. I know a lot of people like you don't want to be involved with labels at all.

And well, you know.

[Aaron - When Rivers Meet]

Yeah, I mean, we've we've had we've had labels come to us.

[The Trout]

Oh, sure. Yeah. Yeah.

[Aaron - When Rivers Meet]

But it was more of a case of literally that they want everything. And so we weren't prepared to let everything go. You know, I think if the deals would be fairer to the artists, I think there'd be a lot more people signing deals, but they don't seem to be.

[The Trout]

So I think they've gotten worse. You know, at least when you had product to sell, you can negotiate with that. You know, in my day, you know, if you sold a million records, you got a gold record.

Well, no, it's a platinum. You know, you might make three hundred thousand, two hundred thousand pounds. I don't know what is a lot of money.

Now you don't make that. So you have to, you know, you have to go on tour all the time and release it. So but I think they're making a mistake.

And the mistake is that people that I've known that have talked about it recently, about the deals they're making, they're not very good. And, you know, I mean, I guess they do have the money behind them to book you. Otherwise, if you want to go, they say, I want to tour the United States.

They can find a place for you to book. And because I know it takes probably both of you. And I know you got one person because whoever I emailed back and forth, it takes a tremendous amount of time to keep going.

I mean, you have a pretty interesting website. You know, you got Instagram, all other stuff that gives a lot of work. Yeah, I know that.

And then you've got a blog in there, too. Maybe we'll get to play some music eventually.

[Aaron - When Rivers Meet]

I must admit, it is tough to keep up with. And since we've had our little baby over the last few weeks, we feel like we've stepped off the gas a little bit on that regard. And we need to step back up again.

It is 24 seven, to be fair. But, you know, that's the nature of it. And it's a proof that you can actually do it if you really want to, you know, but you have to wear different hats.

You can't just be the artist, shall we say. You have to be inside of things as well. If you're prepared to do that, then, you know, everything's available to you.

[The Trout]

Well, I think only if you're an A-lister and been doing it for a long time, you have enough people to do it that you have enough money, you don't care, you know. And then you just go, OK, where are we going this time? OK, what hotel am I staying in?

OK, you know, and you know, whatever. The one thing I didn't notice was and I'd read some information about both of you. What's your what's your blues roots?

Because obviously that's what you like, that kind of music. Yeah. And I'd ask both the same thing.

What did you do? Who did you listen to to start thinking, man, I want to I want to do what they do? Who's kind of the artist that you lean on a lot?

[Aaron - When Rivers Meet]

My very first CD was John Lee Hooker. Literally my very first. Well, it was John Lee Hooker and Iron Maiden.

So I'm very much into the blues and the rock side of things always have been. And. It was I forget when it was exactly, but as soon as I heard boom, boom, boom, the riff, I was like, oh, yeah, this is like I had to have it, you know, and yeah, so that was my my first influence into the blues.

And then I discovered like Muddy Waters, you know, Manish Boy, another one of my favorite tracks of all time, you know, and then and then getting to Robert Johnson and people like that and really delve into it all. So in the blues side of things, yeah, John Lee Hooker was my very, very first, should we say, introduction into the blues. And Grace would have been Bonnie Raitt.

I love me like a man. That was the song that really. Oh, yeah.

Into the blues. So, yeah. Yeah.

[The Trout]

And and I have to admit this because I'm a blues guy. Of course, I'm a Texas guy. So obviously you have a little bit of that roots here.

But I got on mine from your side of the pond and that was from the stones. But I heard Little Red Rooster. Yeah.

What is this? Yeah. I started listening to it.

And then I started picking up more that, you know, kind of vibe and Willie Dixon and all those great artists back then. And then I started studying it. And so many people that come out of that age, some of them are older than me.

They were affected hugely by the blues, American blues. For sure. That's what carried a lot of them.

When did you guys get together and start putting and putting the music together?

[Aaron - When Rivers Meet]

So we've been together as a couple for 22 years and we actually met in a rock pub, which is my local at the time. And what part of England do you live in? So at the moment, we're Essex.

We're based in Essex, which is just about an hour north east of London. Right. But originally I'm from Norfolk, which is the countryside, which is another couple of hours north from where we are now.

And same with Grace as well. She's Cambridge here. So just on the border of Norfolk.

Yeah. So we got together, like I say, 22 years ago. Grace was in numerous types of bands, country bands, blues bands, meatloaf tribute band, things like that.

Now, that's awesome. And then I was in a couple of rock bands just like local stuff, nothing in particular. And we're doing our own things.

And it wasn't until we moved down to Essex about 16 years ago, we decided to. Well, maybe we should do something together. We never even thought about it before.

That's funny. And yeah, it was kind of weird. And I was playing I started playing acoustic finger pick guitar because I was a vocalist before that.

So I was playing finger pick guitar. So I did. And then Grace was playing mandolin and fiddle.

So we fell into like the folk Americana kind of scene. And it was it was kind of cool. And we was writing that sort of music.

But we were doing like function stuff as well. And we were getting more kicks out of that than we were what we were writing. So it was something wrong.

We happened to be at a Guns N' Roses concert in London. And I think it was twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen. And Tyler Bryant and the Shakedown were his support act, one of these four acts.

And they did. Oh, I forget the song now, but it was a blues number. Mojo working, they were Mojo working.

And as soon as that started, our eyes just lit up. And Grace literally stood there, stood up in the crowd. This is what we should be doing.

So, yeah. So then a few days later, I went and bought Gibson Les Paul in a slide. And that's where it started.

So, yeah.

[The Trout]

So you guys had both of you started fairly young performing, I mean, playing. When did you start playing guitar? How old were you?

[Aaron - When Rivers Meet]

I was like I was like starting to be fair. Grace can play everything from the age of one. One of those people.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So, yeah, I was just I was a vocalist.

I say just I was a vocalist.

[The Trout]

Oh, yeah. That's right.

[Aaron - When Rivers Meet]

Yeah. Yeah. I didn't really play instruments.

So I was quite late starting to be fair. And, you know, it's kind of cool. But so when you've got like the vocals together, it kind of works.

But I needed to play guitar, basically. And she needed to play fiddle and mandolin because that's what she was doing. So, you know, it kind of went down that route.

And it was kind of nice, actually, because the way it sort itself out in its own way, whereas I was playing guitar and a kick drum. And then Grace come along with his resonator mandolin. Right.

[The Trout]

Yeah.

[Aaron - When Rivers Meet]

So let's stick a slide on that. So she's taking a slide on it. And it's like, oh, my God, there's some great sounds coming out of that.

And everything was so bluesy. And it was great. Yeah.

So that's how it kind of all started around.

[The Trout]

What do you think is if you were if somebody came up to you and said, Aaron, why are you successful when what do you think takes to be successful in the blues type of music? I mean, in the UK. I mean, obviously, I've read all this stuff about how guys how well you guys are doing and you've got a good gig going on there.

But what do you think the magic sauce is? I mean, obviously, she's a great singer. You know, that takes a lot.

But still, you can have great singers and not go anywhere. So what do you think that was a kind of a magic sauce for you guys?

[Aaron - When Rivers Meet]

I think authenticity. Literally be yourself and write the music that you care about. And, you know, and I think because like I say, when we were doing that other stuff, it wasn't authentic to us, even though it was nice stuff.

And we were writing it. We couldn't understand why it wasn't really resonating with us. It wasn't really resonating with other people.

We didn't quite understand that because it wasn't being authentic to ourselves. And we were trying to play music or push music out that we weren't all that sure about to people. Well, people are going to pick that up, you know, and they did.

[Aaron - When Rivers Meet]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Aaron - When Rivers Meet]

And when we and the telltale sign was we did a blues festival up in Norfolk in Norwich and the main band were outside inside. Sorry. And we were outside.

So this was back in 2019. So we was like just a duo. But playing as a duo and there was no one out there.

And we started playing within three songs. The place was absolutely heaving and packed. And it was like people were resonating to the sound.

Yeah. And we just looked at each other. This is amazing.

You know what's going on? And it's just literally because. I think we were being authentic, you know, and this is we were loving it.

Everyone else was loving it. So, yeah, that's what I would think.

[The Trout]

Well, I think the great thing about your country is there's so many places that you could play. I know it sounds silly. I'm talking to you from Dallas, Texas, but you have a lot of you have a lot of festivals and things that you don't have to go far to do.

And, you know, we Americans get a little jaded with our music even. So to me and when you say authentic, people are looking for that. That had to be a really cool moment for you when you look around and go, why are all these people here?

You know, they're here to see us. Yeah.

[Aaron - When Rivers Meet]

Yeah. Oh, it was it was a magical moment. And it really for us, it was like the defining moment that we thought the music that we're writing now is, you know, the thing we've hit on.

You know, this is our special sound, shall we say. So, yeah, it was.

[The Trout]

And the thing about it is since I produced my own music, too, is I've said to myself, you have nobody to blame. You know, if you take this risk and do everything, write the songs, go to the studio, pay for the studio, record it, whatever, put it out. Ain't nobody to blame for it except you.

So you can't blame anybody else for it. So it's really I always say people, I always tell them the same thing, stick your butt out and let's see if people kick it or not. You know, and and so that that's the other thing.

And I believe you probably are more critical yourselves than you are from other people because a lot of people want to give you lip service. But also, how many albums have you brought? I know the new one's coming out this month, correct?

[Aaron - When Rivers Meet]

Yeah, this will be this. Yeah, this will be the six hour. Yeah.

In since 2020. Yeah. OK.

Pretty much an album here.

[The Trout]

So I know the answer to this, but I want to ask you anyway, how much do you think you've improved in your songwriting and recording time?

[Aaron - When Rivers Meet]

That's a difficult one, actually, because I think. It's like anything, isn't it? The more you do it, the better you should be.

Yeah. And I look back at like some of the songs we wrote back in 2019 and I still love them. But whether they're technically as good, I would say no.

But there's just something about them that is just like, wow, that's that's so standard.

[The Trout]

It's a little bit raw.

[Aaron - When Rivers Meet]

It's more raw.

[The Trout]

It's more. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Now, when you sit down and write a song, you have more thought process in it.

You know, it may come up with a riff and go through it, but then you're like, OK, now we get to do this and that because you already know what you also know your sound.

[Aaron - When Rivers Meet]

Yeah.

[The Trout]

And I and I agree with you. I did an album several years ago and I and I had some good tunes on it, but I'm not proud of the production on it. So it's the same thing.

Now, when I come out with stuff, I always figure if I'm not getting better every time I do it, then I need to quit. You know, I don't know, I'm getting better, but just more solid.

[Aaron - When Rivers Meet]

Yeah, that that and I think not staying the same the whole time. So for us, every album is for us is very different in the regard of like recording techniques, production, all those different things, whether it be more production, less production, different types of production. And it's it's kind of like we always feel that we are in the moment of that album.

And we wouldn't say, yeah, we wouldn't say go back and then re-record them or whatever else to make them better, because that's where we were at the time. And that's kind of like where the memories were and the stories that we're telling at the time. And, you know, so it's kind of nice.

I suppose I just think like what you're saying with the Rolling Stones and they're going to go back to the sound that they had back in the 60s, say early 60s and and revisit that kind of sound that they did. Probably that their techniques would be completely different recording now to what they were back then. But it's still going to be great, like, you know, for them, it's going to be great, isn't it?

Because it's like, yeah, it's well, think about it.

[The Trout]

They get the guest best producers, the best place to record. Yeah. You know, and you got artists that have been doing this for 60 some years.

[Aaron - When Rivers Meet]

Yeah.

[The Trout]

You know, it's almost like is it too simple for us? You know, but then you realize, like, that's why we play the blues. It's not complicated.

It's not complicated.

[Aaron - When Rivers Meet]

And it shouldn't be. No, it definitely shouldn't be complicated because I feel the blues is emotion. And if you can portray that emotion in those songs and it resonates with other people.

That's what it's about. We wrote this album and recorded it last year whilst we were on tour. So every time I say whilst we were on tour, when we weren't on tour, the days off, we were recording studio writing and recording.

Exactly. So we were either we were either playing live or in the studio. And this February, because we had our little baby on the way.

By the way, congratulations. Congratulations. Thank you very much.

Thank you. We've got this cabin in the garden. It's like a big shed, really.

And and we just because Grace couldn't really go anywhere because she was so heavily pregnant in February. And so we got our producer around and our drummer and we just sat around writing songs. So we've already got pretty much the next album on the way, you know.

So we really I mean, it's not it's not finished. There's just a lot of good ideas and lots of them, you know, and it's just yeah, I don't think the next album will take too long to record.

[The Trout]

So when you go out, you obviously only do you do mostly your music, all of it, your music. I assume you do a few covers because of the blues background or do you do covers at all?

[Aaron - When Rivers Meet]

No, when we go out, we don't tend to when we when we went out as a duo, we did we we covered a few songs, but mostly, no, generally as a band, we don't. When we go out as a full band, we literally stick to our own music, which I suppose, I don't know, we could introduce some covers. We've not really thought about it that much.

And I know we actually briefly spoke about it last year where we could chuck a couple in, but that's not happened yet. So whether it will, I don't know. But I mean, we've got such a back catalog of songs.

I was going to say, you could probably play for a long time. Yeah. Yeah.

So we've got six albums worth now. So whether we ever will chuck any covers in, maybe, I don't know. But it'd be cool.

[The Trout]

Now you've been doing it for a while. How is it going with the crowd so they know what you're doing? I mean, obviously, I'm not obviously you go to a festival, people may not even know who you are.

They do know or whatever. Have you found that they listen and they go, oh, I know that tune or I want to sing along with that tune. Have you gotten that point in your career where it's happening for you?

[Aaron - When Rivers Meet]

Yeah, well, it's quite funny, actually, because on the very first tour back in twenty one, we were in Nottingham, which is like Rock City of England, basically. And it was in this little bar. It was about three hundred cap.

So it was a three to fifty three hundred. It was quite cramped, you know, and we were playing one of our songs. I think it was either tomorrow or one of the others, one of the slow ballad ones.

And literally we got it because we recorded it as well. We videoed it and literally Grace just pulled her mic away and she was in tears because everybody was singing the words back to us. And there's a holy crap, you know, this is literally we've only just come out on tour, you know, for the first time.

So, yeah, so it's pretty cool. And there's a lot of songs that we do that that really touch people. So it's really nice.

And it resonates with them when they're singing the lyrics back to you. So that's just unbelievable, isn't it?

[The Trout]

It's unbelievable. And you can't explain this to people that are not musicians or creative people. You can't understand it.

And I mean, if you try to explain to them, why are you getting excited? They're singing my song. They know it's my song, literally.

And you're like, OK, that's cool. But no, you don't understand. Yeah.

[Aaron - When Rivers Meet]

You know, it's like showing your baby, isn't it? And saying, yeah, but my baby's gorgeous. And then that person saying, yes, your baby is really gorgeous.

That's kind of what they're saying.

[The Trout]

That's a good analogy. You're right. It's a good analogy.

You're absolutely right. Because one of the thing we all do is we want people to like our music, but we also know on the other side of it, not everybody's going to like our music.

[Aaron - When Rivers Meet]

Exactly. Yeah.

[The Trout]

I mean, you've got such a deep catalog that people you can pick and choose. You've already done it long enough. Now, obviously, you're going to promote the new LP, the new album, but you already know what people are going to like.

Yeah. You know, you already know. You already know what most likely you're going to finish up with.

You're already going to probably don't start with and know what's going to be in between because you already know what they're going to like when you finish.

[Aaron - When Rivers Meet]

Yeah, I think as well. Do you mean recording the album or do you mean playing it live?

[The Trout]

No, I'm playing it live. I mean, in other words, when you walk on stage because you've done it so long now, yeah, really a long time, but long enough to know, you know what people are going to like because every crowd is going to be a little different. But you also know what they what they all do, what they all like.

They want to hear this song or they want to hear that song.

[Aaron - When Rivers Meet]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we do have certain songs that if we put a poll out, for instance, saying what song should we play on this tour?

Obviously, we're going to play the whole entirety of this new album. Sure. And then people will be coming up with things like, oh, you got to play Freeman or you got to play Did I Break the Law or you got to play Tomorrow or you got to play Dead Man Doesn't Lie, that sort of thing.

And it's just like, oh, yes. And you get that a lot, you know, so which is really cool. I mean, the odd time you get an obscure one, but generally it's the same ones that everybody like how they found us to start with like Freeman or Tomorrow, for instance.

And so I just want to hear that song. You know, I suppose we'd be the same if we went to see somebody and I don't know, someone like. God, you think like the Rolling Stones and you want them to play Red Rooster, for instance.

Yeah, I hear that song. Yeah.

[The Trout]

I remember Mick Jagger said decades ago he didn't want to be an old man singing Satisfaction. And I thought, well, yeah, I mean, I read that years ago. I mean, it was decades ago and he goes, I don't want to be doing that.

And then so it's like, well, that's what people want to hear. You know, it's like, you know, well, and if you already here's the other question I've had or have. Do you have people come up to you after the show and say how far they traveled to come see you?

Have you had that happen yet?

[Aaron - When Rivers Meet]

Yeah, for sure.

[The Trout]

Is that is that an amazing thing when that happens to you?

[Aaron - When Rivers Meet]

It's crazy because we get contacted by people and sometimes we shout out who's traveled the furthest kind of thing. And then people will be like, I've come from America, you know, or, you know, in different states of America, for instance. And then you get people come from Eastern Europe or something like that.

Oh, my God. You know, these people have traveled so far, you know, just to come and see us. I mean, obviously, we got our country is quite small.

But even like for us, it's like if you've got someone, we got some amazing supporters from Scotland.

[The Trout]

That's going to say Scotland or even if they came over. Yeah.

[Aaron - When Rivers Meet]

Yeah. Scotland and Ireland, they'll come over to England and they'll come down like down south all the way, you know, fly down to, you know, I mean, yeah, that's that's pretty special. Yeah.

[The Trout]

Yeah. And that's and I think those things happen to you that keeps you going. Yeah.

You know, it is it is creative process is bizarre. We all know that recording is can be boring to some people and all that stuff. You're making it.

And when you're finished, you're going, OK, I'm happy that. But when people travel distances and come up and say, like you said, yes, your baby is beautiful. It is gorgeous, baby.

And you're like, oh, OK, I guess we can keep going now. You know, that's one of those things. Well, I have to ask because I want to know and I know how difficult it is.

When are you thinking about you're ever going to come on this side? Coming over here, I know it's difficult with the visas and all that stuff, but.

[Aaron - When Rivers Meet]

Well, we came out three years ago and we played in Omaha, which was amazing. We had some some lovely people invite us over and actually we're meeting up with them again in a couple of weeks time. They're coming over here and we're going to try and get back over next year.

So but hopefully some other places as well as Omaha. So, yeah, with a bit of luck because we can't wait. I mean, we had such a blast when we came over.

I can't tell you. It's like it was a festival at 5000 people, something like that. And we didn't know how our music was going to go down.

You know, it's like nobody knows who we are, you know, and is it is is it going to be is it going to go well? We don't know. And I can honestly tell you that people seem to love it, which is really, really good, because by the time we got to the merch desk, it had all gone.

[The Trout]

Oh, poor baby.

[Aaron - When Rivers Meet]

I know. But I was like, well, you know, it was just crazy. And like so many people want to come and see us.

And yeah, it was it was amazing. And yeah, I can't honestly tell you how grateful we were when we went over there that everybody was so supportive and so welcoming. It was like, that's just crazy, you know?

[The Trout]

Well, I think the thing about it, if you haven't figured out by Americans, all you got to do is talk to them and they'll sit there and listen to your British accent.

[Aaron - When Rivers Meet]

Yeah, probably say, what did he say?

[The Trout]

Now you have now you have a baby. Yeah, I know. And that's going to be and that's who's going to be the nanny on the road.

You taking a nanny with you?

[Aaron - When Rivers Meet]

Well, our tour manager, his wife, we actually met. Well, we've known her for a while, but we had a meet up on Monday and we asked her if she if she'd fancy doing it. And so she she looks like she will.

So that's really cool. And she's lovely. We've known him for about three or four years now, something like that.

So because we were we did have our eyes on someone else to do it to start with. Unfortunately, he couldn't do it for personal reasons. So it was a bit like, oh, what are we going to do?

So, yeah, yeah.

[The Trout]

Well, do you take do you take a band with you and travel with the band? Are you guys people that join? I mean, it's your band.

Yeah. So do you hire musicians to come and play with you perform? So what do you bring in with you?

Obviously, a bass player, a drummer. You have a player.

[Aaron - When Rivers Meet]

Yeah. So we go out on this new tour. We're going out as just a trio.

So I've just been myself, Grace and our drummer. But our producer usually play this bass when he goes as a four piece or a six piece. And then we bring in another guitarist who is a complete shredder and a keys player who's phenomenal.

So we go out. We last tour we went out as a as a six piece. So when do you actually start the tour?

Yeah, so the tour starts on July 23rd. Oh, so it's OK. All right.

Yeah. So it's a couple of months yet. But our album is on preorder right now and it's going to be released on the 29th of May.

So we're really excited about that. Rhythm, Rust and Static, our new album. And then we'll be touring that, like I say, in July, August time.

So it's going to be good.

[The Trout]

Well, I'm sure you're itching to go because you got new music. That must have been kind of cool to see that your vinyl is already pre-sold out.

[Aaron - When Rivers Meet]

Yeah, it's phenomenal, really. I mean, when you. I mean, so it takes around three to four months to get the vinyl.

So and then and then to when we put the preorder up. To watch the different variants go, because we have about three or four different variants of the vinyl that obviously the sound is all the same, but the artwork is different or the vinyl is different colors, different types of splatter and all sorts. Yeah.

So just to see that go is just like, wow, that's that's incredible. See, people say that vinyl and CDs are dead, but I disagree.

[The Trout]

I just think it's really cool when I see independent and I read all the stuff and I see independent artists like you doing so well. Because I think, well, first off, you're doing the kind of music I like. There's always a bonus.

That's always a bonus. Let's get down to some nitty gritty here before I hang up. Yeah.

What do you run through when you're playing on stage? What's your amp?

[Aaron - When Rivers Meet]

So I've got a Marshall and a Fender, but. We not tend to we just go through the front.

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